Saturday, June 1, 2013

Lilith in the 8th House: The Elitist

In the pre-Islamic Arabian tradition, Lilith was the mother of the djinn.  Nowhere else does this show up more clearly than in the personality of many 8th House natives.  This is the most private and secretive of Lilith placements, because there is something about the person that compels the interest of others, a certain je ne sais quoi, even among those who have only superficial contact with the native.  In order to achieve their goals, these people may offer a bit of access to their peers, but spend a lot more effort shielding themselves from the public’s desires to know more about them.  What do you do when your life exceeds the dreams of most of your peers?  Keep it to yourself.

Demonic, fury, envy, Black Madonna, being “cast out” of Eden, shape-shifter, manipulative, shrewd understanding, extremely private, magical charisma

A Few Observations

·         Low-profile, ambitious, hardworking types with innate social superiority.

·         Privacy is important!  Loyal friends keep their secrets.

·         Both men and women are noted sex symbols, in some instances.  The women in particular are strikingly pretty, and both sexes project a seductive, hypnotic quality.

·         Some of the men face “do-or-die” situations at least once in their life – either a career dream ends, a career dies and is sometimes resurrected, or actual life and death is at stake.

Looking around on the Internet, I came across some perceptive insight on this placement on In a post that was lifted from a book called “Interpreting Lilith” by D.G. Jay., Jay notes that 8th House Lilith people have “a strong aversion for idle curiosity and expediently conduct him or herself in a manner as not to arouse it.”  These people are secret-keepers, and some of them have good reason for it.

By high school, the native typically has a select group of friends.  It’s a small group, because 8th House Lilith doesn’t take many into their confidence.  Ambition and dedication to their work (or extra-curricular interests) shows up early, and the native will surround him or herself with similar people.  The native has a personal dignity that is quietly but consistently impressive, and he or she attracts friends who not only showcase it, but create a shield around the person. 

Many of us knew people like this in high school – they were not part of the “popular crowd”, but seemed to be the central focus of a small, “side” clique that was inevitably considered “cool”.  The supporting cast had friends outside the group, but they didn’t talk about the group’s “star”, and they didn’t invite outside friends to the group.   As the post on indicates, the native is “discreet in building a private life atmosphere for themselves that makes them inaccessible, either through choice of residence, particular lifestyle, or work immersion.” In large part, this is due to envy, perceived or real.  Everybody wants a piece of 8th House Lilith.  8th House Lilith controls the “magic” by making certain they don’t get it.

8th House Ladies

A topic on Linda notes that many 8th House Lilith women are sex symbols.  Some of them are unusually beautiful, while others enjoy a combination of beauty and charisma.  Sophia Loren and Brigitte Bardot were unquestionably sex symbols.  Meg Ryan was strikingly pretty in some of her best films. Marilyn Monroe look-alike Anna Nicole Smith was annoying, but is still apparently a “sex symbol” for a certain generation of men. People Magazine selected Gwyneth Paltrow as the “World’s Most Beautiful Woman”, prompting an instant backlash about her uber-elite family background as well as her lifestyle website, Goop – Paltrow is probably chalking it up to envy.  Angelina Jolie gets mixed reviews, but at least some people consider her “smoking hot”, and her personality is very 8th House Lilith in other ways.  Her daughter, Shiloh Jolie-Pitt, also inherited this Lilith house placement from her mother.
Although celebrities with 8th House Lilith have money to back up their elite status, the elitism in ordinary people has more to do with innate attitude than money.  At a local women’s shelter, I once did a free horoscope for a resident who had an 8th House Lilith conjunct the fixed star Altair within one degree.  She was tall and thin, and although not conventionally pretty in person, she was very photogenic on camera.  She had snagged a plum job sorting clothing donations that came into the shelter, by somehow gaining the trust of administrative staff whom many other residents disliked and feared.  Yet few of the other residents knew much about her, and those who did would not share details.  I recall a nagging sense of curiosity about her, and then she disappeared.  It would be months before a “slip” in a chance conversation revealed that she was doing jail time for failure to pay back child support.  The next time I saw her, she didn’t say a word about her absence.

Here is a look at some 8th House Lilith women:

Reese Witherspoon
Extremely hard working and focused from a very young age – her role as the female lead in “The Man in the Moon” when she was only 15 years old blew me away.  This film is a tear-jerker, but if you want to see stellar performance from a child actor, this is the movie to watch.  Witherspoon has been in the tabloid press lately for bad behavior, and she has been very uncomfortable with the negative publicity.  8th House Lilith squirms when a public window opens into their private life.

Simone de Beauvoir
She is best known for her now dated feminist masterpiece, “The Second Sex”, but her private life was a fascinating study in 8th House themes – including sexual exploitation, and issues around legacies after death.

She and Jean Paul Sartre were legendary, life-long lovers.  Her Wikipedia entry notes that he asked her “to sign a two-year lease”.  These two kept renewing the lease, but both had many other lovers as well.  At the end of their lives, Sartre’s adopted daughter and literary heir refused to allow his correspondence with de Beauvoir to be published without significant editing to protect his privacy.  De Beauvoir’s adopted daughter and literary heir “upped the ante” when she published Beauvoir’s correspondence without editing.
On a darker note, at least one former female student wrote a book accusing Beauvoir of sexual exploitation.  Wikipedia also notes that, “In 1943, Beauvoir was suspended from her teaching job, due to an accusation that she had, in 1939, seduced her 17-year-old high school pupil Nathalie Sorokine.  Sorokine's parents laid formal charges against Beauvoir for abducting a minor and as a result she had her license to teach in France permanently revoked.”

Serena Williams
Considered one of the greatest tennis players in the history of the sport, male or female, Serena Williams has Black Moon Lilith precisely on her 8th House cusp.  The painting featured at the top of this article was chosen with her in mind.

Hard work and extreme focus characterized her rise to the top of a viciously competitive sport by the time she was 21 years old.  She has a reputation for a temper on court, but has proved a talented fashion designer, and capable business woman and philanthropist off-court. 

Nothing is known about her intimate personal life.  Her closest friends are members of her church of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and they never speak about her to outsiders.   D.G. Jay calls 8th House Lilith a loner, and to a degree, even a casual observer may sense this about Serena. 

Serena’s actual weight has also been a subject of speculation for years – there is a widespread perception that none of her published weights are accurate.  Not surprising for a lady who doesn’t think that is anybody’s business anyway.

8th House Men

The men enjoy charisma that ranges from “a distinct factor” to “earth-changing”.  Mitt Romney, John McCain, Tiger Woods, Elvis Presley, and Adolf Hitler are or were 8th House Lilith.  So is Vincent Cassel, who is a sex symbol in my book, but he doesn’t enjoy a striking reputation for it.  (5th House Lilith has more than its share of sexy heart-throbs among the men – go figure!) 
Another thing I noticed with the men in particular is that some of them have a character trait of refusing to give up under extremely difficult circumstances.  At some time in their life, these men will fight against impossible odds, and give in or give up only after taking a beating that would cause most of us to walk away and cut our losses.  A few of these men are noted below:

Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney has been dreaming of the Presidency for most of his life – he really hoped to achieve what his father, George Romney, could not.  He ran a tough race against John McCain in early 2008, and lost.  Then he went back for more against Obama in 2012, and lost by a very small margin in terms of the popular vote – due to the demographics of the Electoral College, he really had no chance of winning the electoral vote in 2012.  His party blamed him for the lost, but he demonstrated humble leadership when he conceded to Obama.  His wife, Ann Romney, took his defeat with less grace than he did.

Certain moments of his campaign call to mind the elitism and strong sense of privacy which 8th House Lilith is known for.  His most famous campaign slip about the “47 percent who don’t pay taxes” coined a new socio-economic expression for our times.  He was also criticized for delaying the release of his personal tax returns during the campaign – his 8th House Lilith must have slithered on hot coals to have the public with its panties all up in his taxes.

John McCain
Thinking about McCain’s ability to withstand torture during the Vietnam War alerted me to the “against all odds” quality of 8th House Lilith.  McCain torture began after nearly drowning when he parachuted to escape a burning plane in 1967.  According to his Wikipedia profile, the North Vietnamese soldiers who pulled him out crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him.  He was beaten during interrogation, and given medical care only when the Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral.  Two years of solitary confinement followed.

When his father was named commander of all US forces in the Vietnam theatre, the North Vietnamese offered to let him go.  McCain refused the offer unless every officer taken in before him was released – officers were supposed to be released in the order of capture.  The North Vietnamese were humiliated by McCain’s refusal, and retaliated by stepping up his torture.  His Wikipedia profile reports that he was beaten every two hours – this led to his attempted suicide, which was stopped by his guards.  McCain finally gave in and made the anti-American “confession” which the Vietnamese propaganda machine demanded.  He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable, but as he later wrote, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."

Adolf Hitler
While I do not wish to belabor the point, it is likely that Hitler knew that Germany faced certain defeat once the Ardennes offensive failed in mid-December 1944.  Yet, he scrambled to try everything he could think of in the first four months of 1945.  He tried to negotiate peace with the US after the death of Franklin Roosevelt – it failed.  He ordered a complex attack against the Russians in late April – his top commander did not carry it out.  He and Eva Braun committed suicide on April 30, on the old pagan date of Walpurgisnacht, when the gates of hell are said to be wide open.  Coincidentally perhaps, Osama bin Laden was killed around the same time – on May 2.

One More Note on 8th House Lilith

Quite a few of these folks have seen their reputations suffer due to extra-marital affairs or perceived infidelity. 

Tiger Woods saw his career collapse and lost many of his sponsors and advertisers due to his admitted sex addiction – he has also quietly rebuilt his career and is playing at the top of his game.

Angelina Jolie had a reputation for sleeping with most of her leading men before finally settling down with a large family – many Hollywood actresses feared her relationship-wrecking tendencies (Jennifer Aniston was only the most public of these women). 

John McCain’s decision to dump his first wife, Carol McCain, when she was in a wheelchair, may have been a factor many years later in his inability to gain the confidence of independent female voters during the 2008 Presidential campaign. 

Elvis was the sex symbol of his era – and he also had a reputation for infidelity.

Reader Response
A comment from an 8th House Capricorn Lilith named Serena was SO 8th House it made me laugh.

Serena writes:
I pretty much recognized my 8th house there, especially the privacy and secretive part... Just about a week ago it was brought to my attention that some peers with whom I share periodic activities, are very intrigued about my role there, and they are often wondering about my activity in that context. My first thought was that I had been transparent enough, that they were on a need-to-know basis, and that I should not have to explain myself to them…

The best way to make me keep you at distance is to ask me questions about my personal matters. Or if you want me to ignore your very existence, let me find out that you have been asking around about my private life.

What's Next?

Lilith in the 7th House:  The Jilted Bride

What Did I Miss?

Lilith in the 9th House:  The Sexy Serpent

Excerpt from “Interpreting Lilith” by D.G. Jay:

For a look at celebrities with 8th House Lilith:


  1. I love your articles on lilith they're simply the best on internet, I keep coming back to them each time.. BTW Vincent Cassel is considered as a sex-symbol (in France) especially when he was married to the so beautiful Monica Bellucci..

    I'm not sure if we can go that far but to me Lilith in the 8th seems to indicate a "devious" sexuality or at least a high sexual activity..

    As for men I've found a lot of serial cheaters with this placement..

  2. I have lilith in 8th house.
    ...ggggg miau :3

  3. I have Lilith in the 8th house and this is a great interpretation! Interestingly I'm currently undergoing a "career death" right now but I'm female. I'm not sure I'd say I was sexy though but maybe I was when I was younger! I am however the epitome of loner though and I always say I have many acquaintances but few real friends.

  4. i LOVE this. Thank you for the article. Xo

  5. i wonder if this placement would attract a lot of moon in scorpios...